tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post267159717043241375..comments2023-10-31T11:50:09.773+00:00Comments on Mulier Fortis: Should We Bother To Listen To The Public?Mulier Fortishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01186202810919174492noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-51379179499724326352007-06-28T16:32:00.000+01:002007-06-28T16:32:00.000+01:00Citation: "The ethical considerations were not rea...Citation: "The ethical considerations were not really dealt with. I came in late, to find that several people were contesting that embryos were not human beings, and therefore were not worthy of being treated with dignity". <BR/>This is very evil statement. I am scientist and I work with animals like rodents. To conduct my work I have to get a license issued by Home Office, and this can be obtained after passing quite difficult exam after completing the course organised by institutions like for example Royal Veterinary College. Someone can take several modules depending on the work to be done. Rodent embryos are treated very seriously, we learn that we cannot cull pregnant dams in the way that poor embryos can suffer, so they feel something these rodents! However, nobody cares about human embryos, for as stated above, "they are not human beings"? - This is wrong, they are human beings from the moment when two parental cells join to form a zygote, this is determined by the zygote genome, this is the beginning of the human being. I suppose that some theological questions can be raised here, when the soul is formed? In my understanding it is formed from the moment of zygote formation. Maybe this question was on the mind of those saying that human embryo is not a human being?Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09019463202735275839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-62445451507883098202007-06-27T17:11:00.000+01:002007-06-27T17:11:00.000+01:00Not that I can add anything much of substance, but...Not that I can add anything much of substance, but I do have a relevant story that I think reinforces the "pushing the envelope" thing. Back when Dolly the Sheep came about, I was dating an engineering student who was very VERY interested in the other sciences. He and I got into a discussion about Dolly and cloning, and I said "But should we really go down this road? Where's it going to lead?"<BR/><BR/>His response: "I'll let the philosophers worry about whether we SHOULD do it. I just want to know if we CAN."<BR/><BR/>Scary stuff.Kasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12252276821520357094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-54327373341770308782007-06-27T12:52:00.000+01:002007-06-27T12:52:00.000+01:00I share your point of view that this 'consultation...I share your point of view that this 'consultation' is no such thing. Am I cynical? Not as much as this government is. For the last ten years they have 'consulted' on this policy and that law. In the end they do exactly what they have already decided to do. Look at the shambles that is the new Mental Health Act where the government has managed to alienate better than 90% of the very professionals who actually do know better - the Royal College of Pyschiatry!<BR/><BR/>As to the very dubious matter of introducing the "poor suffering victims of Parkinson's Disease (substitute suffering disease of the month) who will benefit from these techniques. Well, that is a perfect example of introducing 'emotionalism'into what ought to be a logical and reasoned moral philosophical debate. Kettles and pots here, me thinks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-61706344396638670662007-06-27T08:52:00.000+01:002007-06-27T08:52:00.000+01:00I agree with Catholic Lawyer - the idea that moral...I agree with Catholic Lawyer - the idea that moral repugnance cannot be engaged with properly and therefore is unworthy of true consideration is so facile. It seems to me, that as most people will react with moral repugnance and as the sort of scientific, relativist twaddle the HFEA wants to listen to is not the way most "ordinary people" think or write we can all conveniently be written off and ignored and the wise ones who can witter on with big words about why it is all so necessary will get their way.<BR/><BR/>Urgh!Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14907284328066937884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-13686769668490253992007-06-26T23:32:00.000+01:002007-06-26T23:32:00.000+01:00Sorry I missed you too - was on a watching brief -...Sorry I missed you too - was on a watching brief - came late - agree that Josephine Q did well as did John Cornwell. I loved the point made by one chap who said "ethics issues aside, the whole thing just smacks of bad science!" The anglican priest (vicar?) was so wishy-washy it was pathetic, though he came across as so "nice", bascially saying, leave it up to your own conscience - heresy!! The very thing that Papa B has warned against - the subjectivisation of conscience.CatholicLawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16751225519203081769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-36652676114456357722007-06-26T23:27:00.000+01:002007-06-26T23:27:00.000+01:00Ummmm... only when people get upset about mentioni...Ummmm... only when people get upset about mentioning the Nazi death camps and daring to suggest that many scientists wouldn't know a moral principle if it paraded naked in front of them!!<BR/><BR/>Ok, the German bit referred to the first part of the sentence, and I was so irritated by the meeting that my attention to grammar was pretty much shot to smithereens.<BR/>;-)Mulier Fortishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01186202810919174492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-15205024445908481592007-06-26T23:18:00.000+01:002007-06-26T23:18:00.000+01:00Sorry Mac, I have to ask - is being German really ...Sorry Mac, I have to ask - is being German really a debilitating and progressive disease?newhousenewjobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16108475172391675961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-61673935323173244642007-06-26T23:16:00.000+01:002007-06-26T23:16:00.000+01:00Hi, CL... sorry I missed you (maybe you'd have rec...Hi, CL... sorry I missed you (maybe you'd have recognised me if I'd been wearing a mantilla!!)<BR/><BR/>As it so happened, the point about animal experimentation <I>was</I> commented upon by some animal-rights types!Mulier Fortishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01186202810919174492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-74770920236465696942007-06-26T23:08:00.000+01:002007-06-26T23:08:00.000+01:00I was there too (for the last 2/3rd's)- and I thin...I was there too (for the last 2/3rd's)- and I think it is clear what the public thinks – for the time being - but, public opinion is fickle and can change. There is one especially offensive piece in the HFEA consultation document "Hybrids and Chimeras" at pp14-15 under "Arguments against the creation of human/animal embryos”, the HFEA states: "Moral repugnance: people often feel an instinctive moral repugnance towards the prospect of creating hybrid or chimera embryos. However, precisely because this sentiment is based upon an instinctive reaction to something it is very difficult to characterise or, more importantly, to engage with in discussion…”. Is this the dictatorship of relativism speaking? Is this a back-handed swipe at natural law? Err, people also find paedophilia morally repugnant instinctively! Why??? We are really far gone down that slippery slope in this country. I have an idea: let’s get the animal rights activists engaged in this debate – creation of chimeras etc., is also abuse of animals, surely?CatholicLawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16751225519203081769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28018475.post-8081374346675052262007-06-26T23:02:00.000+01:002007-06-26T23:02:00.000+01:00Although I couldn't go due to parish commitments, ...Although I couldn't go due to parish commitments, another expert in the field rather took the same view that you do: they have these consultations but then carry on with their agenda regardless. Bravo to Cornwell. We must be able to use words such as 'holocaust' to describe what is being done to human life in the name of so-called 'progress.'Father John Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10581732723849634398noreply@blogger.com